451

I'm up to page 130 now and the story is starting to get very suspenseful with Montag being on the run. The scene where he is attempting to cross the boulevard is very exciting becuase the beetle is approaching but you don't know if it is the cops or not. When the car passes and Montag makes the connection that it might have been the ones who killed Clarisse it is a thoguht that brings the reader and Montag back to the beliefs and actions of Clarisse. I find it a bit ironic that he wouldn't be crossing the street if he hadn't of known Clarisse but his change of mind didn't really come until he fouind out that she had died. So for him to encounter the possible car that killed her while he was doing the same thing she was doing (for all we know she could of been running away also) is some what ironic. It's as if there is a natural element in this society that gets rid of people like this. People who think differently and disturb the peace. The 'normal' people don't cross the street and for good reasons. The one's who are not 'normal' must cross the streets to get away and in this way the streets are a tool to kill these people. I find it bery brave and rightgeous of Montag to place those books in the house of his fellow fireman. I felt as though he gained revenge on the people that held him down by doing this and by burning Beatty. Montag is certainly out to change the world.

BNW

So we have I test tomorrow! I am reading Brave new world and I don't really understand it as much as I did F451. I really liked F451. It felt like it had a better story line. In BNW, the 1st main character, Bernard, seemed like he should have gone against the system more. He didn't believe in it and knew it was wrong but then he didn't want to look like an outsider so he tried to fit in. I don't understand why he wouldn't jump in and help John when he got into the fight with the people at the hospital. He could have really shown what he believed in by joining in with John but he chose not to. John being the one to fight the system was kind of boring. It was so expected because it would have been like one of us seeing this "World State" and we obviously wouldn't agree with it either. It should have been someone from within that fought against it like in F451. I think it made F451 more interesting. So good luck on the test everyone!

Personally, I like Brave New world over 451. I'm reading 451 now, and it's good and has a good story line and yeah...it's easier to understand. But i just like how in BNW the ways of the society are explained in the beginning. Also i liked how in BNW the society was so used to their lives that it was so out of the ordinary for a person to "rebel" agaisnt their ways. In 451 i feel like people get away with their indepence more. I hope that makes sense. In BNW i feel like its more intense and realistic for a society to be that way, rather than in 451 where firemen are being called to a house to burn books.

Also in 451, i feel like the only thing they do in their society is ban books. The author doesnt go into detail about other things the society is against. I know that Clarisse died for being a "thinker" and went against what the society was telling her, but i feel like 451 didn't explain what is right and wrong in their society.

-andrea salva

Fahrenheit 451

I finished reading the first part of the story, “The Hearth and the Salamanter” and it was mostly about Montag being a fireman and his home life. At the beginning of the book, Montag loves his job burning books, and takes pride in it. Montag doesn’t know the purpose of doing it but likes it because it makes him like everyone else. He meets a teenage girl named Clarisse, who recognizes him as a fireman and starts talking to him. Clarisse is different than most people because she does not care about his reputation. She introduces him to nature and shows him that he can be an individual. After talking with Clarisse, Montag realizes that inside he is not really happy. I think that now Montag’s behavior will continue to change throughout the story.


Paul Martel

Why couldn't 451 be in Chapter format?

I was just thinking about it, I wonder why Fahrenheit 451 wasn't written in Chapter form. I haven't looked into the author's other books, maybe it's a style of his, but I could definitely see the book written in Chapter form with no problems. Just wondering what everyone thinks, and their ideas to why he wouldn't put it in chapter form.

451

Having read most of 451 now, I find it much more interesting than Brave New World. I feel that it more of a realistic book that actually has a plot that can be followed rather easily. I also find it interesting how the ways of the society in which Montag lives are presented to the reader. For example, late in section two the narrator describes Montag stopping at the bank, to get the money for the printer, which is oppened all the time with robot tellers working. This shows thourgh the context of the plot that their banks are differnt than ours and that they as a society have evolved their mentality of what are appropriate hours to bank. The people of this future society have made it the most convenient to bank and the author has showed this in a way that is not blatant to the reader as being a fact of that society. Throughout this book there are examples of this and by having these facts and descriptions of the soceity intertwined with the plot it allows the story to flow and evolve easier than I believe the story did in Brave New World. By the way what class would Faber be? He's smart but has cowardice.

Clarisse McClellan

I guess I want to talk about the fact that I don't think the author, Ray Bradbury, should have killed off Clarisse McClellan so early on. She really made Montag think and wounder. Also, she put things in perspective for the reader helping to compare our world with theirs. And since the author did kill her off so early I believe that he should have at least introduced her after Mildred. I know that Clarisse was a very important charecter in this book. However, to introduce her first and the let her die so early is very rare and not very well put together. I really liked her, all though she was pretty much a loner and a high school drop out. She was wicked bright. Moreover, she had a great logic and way of producing thoughts in her mind.

Hannah Reissmann

Fahrenheit & BNW so sad!

I have just finished reading Fahrenheit and IN THE FOLLOWING SENTENCES I AM GIVING AWAY THE ENDINGS, but for the most part just like Brave New World its grim. Just wondering if everyone sees it this way, I mean I read BNW first and the ending seems very sad with the savage (John) hanging him. Then I read Fahrenheit and the whole city they had lived in is blown to pieces with many people dying, luckily not Montag. Just I can imagine people imagining these stories let alone people enjoying them so much. It's ashame in Brave New World John couldn't live on in a happy life, and ashame that Montag doesn't meet Clarisse again to make him happy. Just my thoughts on both books, just wondering how everyone else is feeling..

BNW: John (Savage)

In BNW, when Linda is dying, the Savage is now kneeling next to her bed in the "death hospital". I noticed when reading John is trying to remember all of the good memories with his mother, he fails to remember them as good ones. He states that "there was only a hateful resurrection of jealousies and uglinesses and miseries." This quote states that in this world, John is totally lost and only feels hatred and confusion.
There is also reference to an actual God. John keeps repeating "Oh, God, God, God..." when Linda has died in the hospital. One of the twins going through death conditioning hears him and is totally and utterly confused, to which the head nurse reacts quickly and gives the children chocolate. John is probably going to be in a great deal of trouble in this society because of the many rules he has broken and lines he has crossed.
I predict that John is going to be sent back the Savage Reservation, but this is what he wants because of all the horrible memories he has in this new society he is "trapped" in. Now that he has dealt with Lenina, and he still has to see Helmholtz before anything major can occur.

Paul Morrison

451: Mildred

When Montag is telling his reasons to Farber about why he wants Farber to help him understand the books, Montag makes a reference to his wife Mildred saying that she is dying. Is Mildred really dying, or does she subconsciously want to commit suicide with the sleeping pills? Does Montag want her to die, since he really doesn’t show much affection towards her anyway?

Angela Tontaro

when i got into reading the end of the first part and starting the second part, i had alot more questions.

1. what was going on when Beatty started talking about how Clarisse died?
At first i thought i read that Montag's wife had killed her, i didnt really understand what was going on. The fact is that maybe she could have killed her i guess because maybe she found out that he liked her, but the only problem with that is is that she was hit by a car, so its confusing.

2. Was there any significance in the fact that Montag felt bad about having that woman be burned alive and the other firemen didnt have any remorse?

3. why did Montag take that book?


4. what exactly was Beatty's responce to what the woman quoted from the book she had read?

5. In the second part of the book, Montag says that his wife is dying?
is she really dying or is she just really depressed and stuff and maybe feeling like shes not doing anything anymore that she WANTS to die.




i did however figure out exaactly what Montag's job was, which was to burn books in general

BNW coming together

As I read more into Brave New World the title makes more and more sense. This far in the story Bernard has totally shown bravery in its' highest aspect, by embarassing the director infront of the world leaders. By doing this, Bernard has showed the rest of the people that surround him that he actually can think on his own two feet. We all know by now, none of the other characters would step forth like that. It makes the reader wonder what Bernard's next action will be, whether it will be another brave one or just to let this one sink in completely. The new world will hopefully include more bravery such as the past example. The book is also making a lot more sense now that it is coming together as an actual story. The characters are evolving and becoming more like actual people rather than clones that are alive for only one purpose.

I still don't understand why Huxley would choose to write about such a provacative society when this was strongly opposed in the time that it was written. I also don't fully understand why the hospital for children is for death, and the death conditioning process.

Paul Morrison

Fahrenheit 451

I think that the title of this section represents Montag and his struggle to obtain the information in books. Like how he tried to fill sieve with sand but the sand kept falling through, Guy is trying to soak up as much information and knowledge as he can through books because he thinks that something is in them that is important. The only thing is that he is retaining none of it, or close to none like a sieve would. He is only retaining the big chunks and not all of the little ones.

Also, in this section, Faber reads Guy the book of Job from the Bible. I think that this is very siuting to what Guy is going through. In the story of Job, God and the Devil made a bet to see how he would react when the Devil made bad things happen to him. God here is represented by Faber who is standing for the right thing where Beatty is the Devil and is standing for all the wrong things. In the Bible though, Job still praises God and doesn't turn against him and start to hate him like most people would. I believe that Guy will do the same thing. In the end, even with all of the pressure of Beatty, he will realize what is right and go with it like Job did.


--RJ Murray

Bernard & the director

In chapter 10 in Brave New World, the director is on the verge of sending Bernard to Iceland, because Bernard simply does not fit into the society and is considered an outcast. But before he has a chance, Bernard switches it around and puts all the shame on the director instead. Bernard proves to be a very smart character and embarasses the director in front of all of the world state members. I find that act a very selfish one on Bernard's part. He should have brought Linda and John to the director in private but I guess in their society, it doesn't really matter because no one really has privacy. Plus, by shunning the director in front of all those people, Bernard receives more credit for stepping up and showing them he was capable of doing such a courageous act. I think he knows it will give him social status in the new world and keeps that in mind because people already think low of him. It also shows that he is sort of desperate in a way because he'll do anything to gain some sort of social power.

One thing I found particularly disturbing was the children in the death hospital. First of all, the hospital is just for dying people? And why are the children going through death conditioning? Can someone explain?

--Jenn Headley

Is Guy Montag right or wrong?

Montag through the convincing of Clairisse becomes convinced that books should be brought back into their society. After taking the book from the old women's house he right away talks to Faber about duplicating the copy of the "bible." Montag through occassionally reading these books believes that books should be brought back into society despite him having nobody on his side to back him up besides Faber. Beatty knows what Montag is up to, and he definitely shows no feelings toward Montag, he even has the hound spying on him. Do you guys think its right that Montag is trying to bring back something that he has no support for...because I don't.

Today in class, Laz pointed out that BNW was a mythical archetype story. I was blind sided by that because i thought we were done with those kinds of stories. I didn't realize that Hemholzt was the person who got what he wanted in the end. I thought that was interesting.

Also, we discussed how F451 is an archetype story as well. I tried to understand how Clarisse could die so early in the story, and Laz pointed out that Clarisse was the guide for Montag. She had to die for Montag to go on with his "mission" of finding out who he was.

why is it that i never pick up on these things? haha
-Andrea Salva

Fahrenheit 451

In response to Paul Martel's comment about how the feelings of Guy and Bernard are somilar in relation to society. I don't think that they feel the same way about society at all. Yes, Guy does not like the current society and is beging to question the morality of it, Bernard on the other hand never said that he did not like his society. He just did not like how he was on the outside and not one of the normal ones because he was a smaller alpha. When he brings the "savage" John into the spotlight, he is extreamely happy and elated because he is now popular and he then abides and follows willingly the standards of society. So I really do not think that you can relate their feelings to each other.

--RJ Murray

Revolt coming in Brave New World?

In Brave New World, there are certain world leaders, such as Mustapha Mond. If I were one of these world leaders, I would think something is wrong. Although Mustapaha tells the reader that "history is bunk", he should pay more attention to it. In the past, conformity has been attempted, and failed. I believe that the main reason to the failed attempts is because of a revolution. I also believe if one is to give up his freedom, he is tempted to regain it through a fight.

Today in class, we spoke about how Benjamin Franklin believed that if one were to give up his freedom for the guarentee of being safe, one should get neither. I agree fully in the fact that you shouldn't have to give anything up just for a simple personal security. In Brave New World everyone gave up not only they're freedom but the society that they now call "savage". History already shows us if you push everybody into conformity, if one revolts, they all follow. If I were one of the world leaders I would definately look into revolutions, and work to prevent one from breaking out.

Paul Morrison

Fahrenheit 451

The more I read Fahrenheit the more I seem to enjoy it. Brave New World was interesting but at times it got a little too strange with all the sex and soma. The character of Guy Montag in Fahrenheit can be related to people in our society because he is questioning some of the norms of society. Montag begins to realize that he is just like all of the other firemen and wonders why he is burning books in the first place and even decides to occasionally take them instead. He is also starting to feel guilty about burning people's houses and feels responsible when the woman burns herself. I think it will be interesting to see how this change works out for him.

Paul Martel

Fahrenheit 451

I just started reading Fahrenheit 451 and I think it is very strange just like Brave new World. Both societies are futuristic and are based on conformity. I'm not sure what book I like more yet but I do think that Fahrenheit 451 is easier to read. I think that the similarity between the feelings of Bernard and Montag to their societies are very similar. Montag is starting to realize that he doesnt enjoy life as much as he thought he did. he is starting to question the idea of burning books. I look forward to continue reading Fahrenheit 451 to see what happens next.

Paul Martel

Fahrenheit 451

I'm obviously reading Fahrenheit...and I'd just like to say that I think I like this more than Brave New World. Although BNW was very interesting to me, i think F451 is a lot more on my level. Not just with reading but also that someone could possibly relate to the story. Someone like Guy Montag who wants to explore more than the norm of the society is very similar to teens these days. Not saying that our society burns books because we don't want to read or become more intelligent, but a lot of teenagers these days want to be different and express themselves in other ways. Everyone wants to know more, and that's what Guy is trying to achieve. Sadly, i think Guy will not succeed in his attempt to expanding his knowledge, just because the author might want to make a point about a society that is over controlling.

I hope there is more background to how this society is functioning. In BNW the author mentioned a lot about what was right and wrong in their society, but in F451 i haven't read much of that. (other than reading books, or having books is forbidden)

I'm anxious to see how F451 turns out. When i read BNW i was very dissapointed with the ending, even if it did have a deeper meaning than what was written.

-Andrea Salva

Brave New World

As I read more into this book, I find it a little easier to understand. The society as a whole is a completely bizzare outlook on a possible future. I don't understand why the author started the book with the conditoning center and that whole world and then suddenly in the middle of the story, decides to introduce the savage reservation in new mexico. The two different 'worlds' are pretty much opposite from their everyday activities and even to the way people are associated with each other. For instance, in the "other place" as John calls it, people belong to each other and it doesn't matter who it is. But in the savage reservation, people are known to stay with one person [like in our society, which we consider normal]. It is pretty disturbing thinking if we lived in the new society that Huxley produces, in which, everyone belongs to one another and sleeps with whomever they want just because they could. I also find it interesting how Linda relied on soma in the new world before and is conditioned to need something like that so she starts to depend on the mescal in her new village. It seems like people in the "other world" are always depending on something [soma] or someone else [promiscuous sex] to fulfill their needs of being normal or fitting into society.

Jenn Headley

Brave New World Confusion

When I started to read Brave New World I was completely confused about several things. Aside from Farenheit 451, this book I feel is more difficult to read. I feel that Aldous Huxley writes in an indepth way, that is hard to follow from the reader's perspective. The storyline also throws me off because it is so incredibly different from our world today. Even though science already plays a big role in our society, the science that is used in the book is totally opposite from how it used today. I also do not understand why Huxley would pick the idea of conformity in such a high degree.

The part that bothers me the most about the book is how it is trying to predict how the world will be in the future, but is not even close to our society today. I could not see the storyline or any of the basic ideas in the book becoming apart of our future. I usually expect books to come together by the second chapter, but Brave New World seems like the story starts out as if the reader has read several introductory pages already.

Since the story doesn't make sense to me in the slightest bit, I can't say much more on the subject. Even if the story did make sense though, I don't like how Huxley writes in his provocative ways. I think that the story will eventually evolve, but it does start off confusing and in a slow way.

Paul Morrison

alysha scarperia

This book is beyond weird. The first thing that really weirded me out was the fact that in this book the children rewared for being sexual with each other and then when the children are not they are looked down upon. That freaks me out, and especailly since I work at the YMCA and there are some children there that do try and do things that's totally inappropriate. I sort of feel like I don't know what the world is coming to and it scares me. There are so many things that kids do now that no one would have ever done when they were that age. And there are just so many things that kids know now that I never knew when I was there age. I felt like chapter three was kind of confusing because it switched back and forth from scene to scene. Another thing that I really did not like about this chapter was how Herny was talking about Lenina. And the fact that Henry is talking to the guy about how he should just "try out" and "have" Lenina one night is absoutely DISGUTING. I HATE how boys think that they can just talk about women that way. And women aren't any better these days because they think it's cute to be known by a whole bunch of guys. I don't really have any questions about anything I read this weekend, but I just feel like this book is weird. I'm not sure if I like it but it is interesting. It makes me think and it makes me compare the way society is now to the book.

Brave New World: Is This Our Distant Future?

The brave new world could be our possible future because a the way the society is controlled can very likely happen and the way people are created can happen. People will probably be created by science and the different classes people are placed in could happen. Society today is based on survival of the fittest, the strongest and more pushing are always the leaders. The weaker ones in society just do what they are told. There may not be names for these groups of people, but that doesn't mean there soon won't be.

Fahrenheit isn't sooo bad!

Ehh not the greatest book I've ever read, but surely not one of the worst. The topic of burning books is hard enough to write about in the first place, but then comes in the idea of a crazy society as a whole as well. Through Part 1 Ray Bradbury (the author) has probably done the past job he could have done when it comes to writing on this topic. I must admit this book has alot of similarities to Brave New World including: the idea of no books allowed in society, and how the story is centered around a man's life.

Fahrenheit 451

This book is very interesting i think. The whole society seems to me that they dont like nature and animals yet there is a salamander on the firemens' sleeve, there is a robot dog called a hound, and the machine that pumped Mildred's blood was called a snake. I found that to be alittle interesting. Also, with the hound, the snake, and Mildred, Bradbury says that they are all dead but alive at the same time. He uses it alot so far in the book. I think it describes everything in society including the people because they are all technically alive, but there are so many rules and regulations that the people are dead like zombies just going throught the day. That is why they have so many suicides in one night like the snake operator said. It is a theme that I think will come up alot more in the book.

Mildred also is a very interesting character. She tries to OD on sleeping pills but denies it in the morning and almost becomes aggressive about it towards Guy. Also, she seems to be more obsessed with her work than with her own husband. It almost seems like she can't wait till he is out of the house and going to work. I wonder why she wants him out so badly. What could she be up to?

Guy Montag is a fireman, and he notices that he acted and looked exactly like the other firemen did too. But all of the sudden he is questioning his actions as a firemen and isnt participating as one in all of the "fun" things that they do. He is questioning things that someone in his position should not be. He should be doing his job and burning books like the authorities want him to. But every since he met Clarisse, she has got him thinking more and more about how the social structure is wrong and how society is drone like in following standards. I think that he will eventually stand up for change, but I am not sure how well that will work out for him.


-- RJ Murray

fahrenheit 451 Kerth

I think that the beginging of this book is very interesting. More so than i thought it would be. I like the way that it is written becuase it makes our society look so ridiculous and so far in the past. I think that this is a book that will make us think about the freedom of our society and how lucky we are to be living in a culture where books are allowed and we are able to read what we want. This seems like it will be a humbling book that will cause us to think twice about our freedoms. I hope it is more interesting than A Brave New World because that book was too bizzare for me. That type of society didn't seem possible to me but the typeof society presented in 451 seems like we are just a few steps away from it. I can't wait to see how this story unfolds.

Alysha Scarperia?!

Well, this is my frist blog and I really don't understand how to do this thing so I'm just going to write. I didn't know where to put my name so from now on I am just going to put it in the title. By the way, I'm reading "BRAVVVVVE NEW WORLD" I don't think I'm going to like this book though, I feel like it's not going to be good. Then again, I felt the same way about F451 when I first started to read it and then I ended up liking that book. There's not really much I can say so far about Brave New World because the first chapter seemed confusing and boring. All it really talked about was cloning... I guess? Does anyone else feel like they want to sing the Aladin song when the read the title of this book? Anyone... anyone? I feel like I want to shout, " A Brave New World... " and so on. But yeah, could you imagine if you got older and human beings didn't "reproduce" as they do now. I know scienctist have a lot of things they can do now with making babies, but where would the joy be in becoming a parent if you really couldn't have a baby? You just give up your eggs and sperm and then someone makes thousands of babies out it. It's weird. I wonder if the people in this book really have parents? And if people don't reproduce, what would happen if someone where to become pregnant? Or do they just not have sex? Or are they unable to become pregnant? This book is something else.. I'll just have to read more of it to really get a feel for what it's going to be about.

fahrenheit 451?

im not really sure if im doing this post right but here goes. The beginning of this book was actually very interesting -alot more interesting then i thought it was going to be, i thought it be a little boring. the beginning was a little confusing for me though, i dont know if anyone could answer this but, what exactly was this fireman, Guy Montag doing? burning books? and for what? i dont really get that. What year does this take place in because after i read where the fireman saw the girl Clarisse McClellan and began to walk with here and have a conversation with her, she mentions that firmen used to be people who put out fires not start them, and she mentioned that it was considered against the law to drive slow or to be a pedestrian. so, i was thinking that maybe this book took place in the future sometime. i dont know. Then the book really got interesting because i learned that the firman has a wife and aparently she tried to overdose on sleeping pills and i think this was maybe a suicide attempt? hopefully the book will continue to get better and better.

Brave New World Test Prep

Eh I know I'm probably the only loser coming on today, but just thought I'd ask a few questions and/or comments about Brave New World before our test tomorrow. Does anyone FULLY understand the religous conversation between John, Bernard, and Mond in Chapter 17? I understand some parts of it including: God being labeled as "old" and so he must being forgotten...but does anyone get the quotes by Cardinal Newman and what Mond believes is the way people develop a belief in God? Mond's big thing is that alot of things he doesn't want in his society aren't wanted because he's afraid that those things in the end will make the society more unstable. And a comment on Violent Passion Surrogate (VPS) seems to me to be a complete opposite to soma, it seems to give you the equivalent of fear and rage without having to go through the actual situation...why would this even be needed?

Brave New World

By the time i'm up to the general questions for BNW, some of the things asked are still confusing: I dont see how john is like a biblical character, I dont really see why Ford is such an appropriate name for their god. Also, a question such as "what is the purpose of human life" is kind of complicated to answer as well; especially since the answer for characters in BNW and somebody in our world would differ greatly. Its just that these arent exactly answers that you could go back and look up in the text and to some extent, i dont realy know what they're asking.

couple quick questions

I have a couple quick questions.

1. Is Clarrise actually dead, or is Mildred just being crazy from her pills.

2. Is the dog that Mildred hears outside of the house while Montag and her were reading books the dog from the firehouse? If so, is this dog how they find out if people have books?