"Bermudas"

"To His Coy Mistress"

I believe that the argument in this poem is straightforward. The speaker in the poem is arguing with his mistress and tries to persuade her to have sex with him. He begins by saying that if he had eternity and wealth he would spend enormous amount of time courting her and praising her. However, he says that if lovers do not consume their love, then they would only grow old and die, and so the theme of "Carpe Diem" is introduced. Also, if their love wouldn't be consumed, instead of being penetrated by her lover (lose her virginity) she would instead be penetrated and eaten by worms in a tomb where there is no love. Therefore, the speaker says they should combine all of their strenght into a single act of violent lovemaking and then they could at least make the most of the time they had.

Giuseppina ScottoDiCarlo

Bermudas

I find that I like this poem a lot better than To His Coy Mistress because I think it makes more sense and is different from the previous ones we have read that have been about love and sex and men trying to have sex which gets pretty old when reading about it during the sixteen hundreds. I think this poem makes sense becuase it's easy to understand how these sailors have just survied some sort of unexpected event and they are praising God and his will to make sure they get through it. They thank him for providing them with furit and shelter and an island to live on and for making the fruit taste so good and for providing the seas that give them life. They hope that their song reaches God's ear's and is then echoed throughout the sea for all to hear and gain inpiration and faith in God. I think that this makes sense to the reader and delivers the messge in a creative way by placing it in a song and giving a story to give the reader some context as to who and why the song is being sung. It is inspriring and could give people hope who have not only been shipwrecked but to anyone who has been in dark time and can't find a way out of it.
unespied- to not see or catch sight of.
Prelate- bishop or high figure in the chruch.
ambergris- a waxlike substance that originates as a secretion in the intestines of the sperm whale, found floating in tropical seas and used in perfume manufacture.

John Milton

I don't really understand why Milton is so famous for his epic poem "Paradise Lost". I understand it was the first time anything like that had been done but when Laz explained it in class today it seemed to me that all he really did was retell the bible. It doesn't make sense why he got credit for retelling a story that had been written down hundreds of years before.

Katherine Parsons

To His Coy Mistress

First some background on Andrew Marvell, lived 1621-1678 who supported the Puritans along with John Milton. The poem was written before serving for Cromwell and he died before it was published.
The poem's main topic is "carpe diem" => seizing the day....it is said to be one of the finest poems of this topic ever put into verse. What I like about the poem is that it is very straight forward, the speaker is simply trying to persuade his mistress into having sex with him. A metaphysical conceit is presented stating that if he were wealthy he spend alot of time courting her. If she weren't to love young and lose her viginity she'd grow old and eventually die without love and be in a tomb full of worms. The speaker believes they should combine all their strength in making love toward one another, and to make the most of the time they have.

Discussion in Class : Marriage

I think that the times have changed, where before marriage was all there was to look forward to in life, especially for women since their only purpose in life was to serve their husbands and make babies. Now instead, there is a lot more to expect out of life, and everyone wants to at least try if not reach their goals in life before settling down and forming a family. I believe that mid 20s to about 30 is the perfect age to marry and form a family because by that time he/she would have definitly enjoyed youth , and also because it is better and easier to have children at a young age so that he/she can definitly see his/her children grow up and become full matured adults.

Giuseppina ScottoDiCarlo

Sonnet XIX When i consider how my light is spent

I found this poem very confusing to read and understand at first and it took me a few readings to somewhat understand it to the point where I got the general message. I think it is harder to read because of the lack of punctuation which makes the first half of the poem seem like it's rambling on. I think that the author is trying to explain that he is questioning his purpose in life and wheather or not he is serving God in the right way in the right amount. It seems to me that he has this dark talent but feels guilty about exploiting it and feels that he should be more dutiful to God. He ask's God if labour is the right way to serve him and God responds by saying that this is not the most important thing to him and that his best "disciple's" are not those who labor but rather those who carry his modest message of fatih and salvation with them every day and present themselves as examples of Christ's power to everyone they meet. These are the people who serve him best. Patience is a very important thing also and this is what allows someone to truly become a man of God. If they can wait with the other thousands to send God's message across the land or to simply recieve God's message whather it be thorughout a lifetime or thorughout a single day.

"Bermudas"

So this is what I can come up with for this poem so far.

Andrew Marvell wrote it as though sailors were singing it. Thats what the lines "from a small boat, the listening winds received this song" means. Then the sailors are thanking God for guiding them through the ocean to this unknown island, which I guess is Bermuda. He says God gives the people everything they need. Towards the end of the poem, he mentions making a temple and "let our voice praise God." This could be about traveling long distances for religious freedom because that is what happened in England and that is where he is from. At the very end of the poem he mentions the sailors again. He says they are from England (which is another reason it could be about religious freedom.) So thats what I got out of it. Please add to this if you figure out something else.

John Milton

Thought I'd take the John Milton biography and try to extract the important terms from it. He was born in December 1608 in London , his family was somewhat wealthy (enough to own two homes). Was a good student at St. Paul's School starting when 12, and learned latin, greek, and hebrew. In 1625 Milton went to Christ's College of Cambridge University where he was called "Lady of Christ's". Graduated on time in 1629, despite being suspended for a year due to fighting his tutor. "On the morning of Christ's nativity" was written that same year. Got his masters degree in 1632 and decided he'd write poetry for a living while educating himself at home while living with his rents.
Wrote a masque, Comus, in 1634 at Ludlow Castle, in honor of Earl of Bridgewater. 1635 he moved to Horton, Buckinghamshire, where he also learned Italian. Milton's classmate drowned in Irish Sea in 1637 so he wrote Lycidas in memory of him. 1638 he toured continent to further his education, met Galileo and Grotius. Between 1641 and 1660 wrote no poetry because of Puritans, he took Parliaments side and wrote pamphlets for them. He married Mary Powell in 1642, she was of royalist family. In 1644 published two famous pamphlets: Areopagetica and "Of Education".
Mary returned to John in 1645, had three daughters for John before death in 1652.
1649 pamphlet "The Tenure of Kings and Magistrates" was written after Charles I death. His second wife (Woodstock) died in 1656 and Cromwell died in 1658 forcing him to hide before being imprisoned and executed upon Charles II return. He was saved by Marvell and after 1660 he retired from Public life due to oldness and blindness. Paradise Lost came out in 1667, died in 1674.

This does not include the Epics or the poem, but really depicts the important things out of the bio, hope it helps.

12 hour reading

posting now because of the strange feeling left with my after reading that much of lord of the rings in 12 hours

i'm not really tired and i'm not super energized. i'm more in a mental meltdown wiuth all that information cramed in my head most of which is forcing finals information out kinda like the inn keeper

did any one notice that when froto found the sword the next morning after the attack that it melted down to the handel alot like in baewolf??

i would really like to make more connteions and analize but i'm far to melted to do so

- zack

"Sonnet XIX: When I Consider How my Light is Spent"

I think that this poem is saying that God can use all kinds of people. No matter what their ability is, God will find a use for them. The poet himself mentions in this poem that even with his physical disabilities God still gave him a purpose and worked through him. But then the poet expresses how unsatisfied he is of the role that God gave him, and complains of his wasted potential. Finally, in the last lines, the poet reminds himself of the insignificance of his abilities in comparison to God's will. So, I think that this poem is about faith and submission, but also ego and ambition.

Giuseppina ScottoDiCarlo

Too soon...

12 hours uhh

_gepp

"To The Virgins, To Make Much Of Time."

This poem was easy to read but each sentence in each stanza had a lot meanings. I think in the first stanza the poet expresses the saying of "Carpe Diem" that urges someone to "Seize the Day",and he believes vergins should do so. I also think that the rose buds symbolize the vergins, fresh and youthful, but brief. Life is compared to a flower, where one day one experiences joy and then the next day dies. The second stanza I found very hard to understand, but I think that its trying to say that life is like a day, there is first a sunrise and then a sunset. So I think that this stanza is trying to say that death is the end of existence. The third stanza I believe is saying that youth is the best time of life since young people are strong and are more able to enjoy themselves. Finally, I think that in the last stanza the poet is saying that each person should take control of his or her life, and spend their time wisely. Since life is short, the poet says to enjoy life and try to make your dreams come true.

Giuseppina ScottoDiCarlo

"Delight in Disorder"

I think that this poem is about the wantonness of clothes. I think that the writer believes there is a delight in both the thought that the wantonness of a woman's clothes might mean a similar wantonness in bed. There is also a fear of it, of the "wild civility" of it all.

Giuseppina ScottoDiCarlo

"Clerimont's Song"

I think that in this poem, the writer is criticizing a woman's way of dressing up for a feast. He talks about the "art" she uses to get ready for the party, which would be make-up and other beauty supplies. All this "art" though does not strike the writer since he prefers simplicity and grace over the use of so much "art". He finally says that the "art" only strikes his eyes but not his heart, in other words that the outer beauty only strikes his eyes and therefore is not an important factor when seraching for true love. I believe that the writer is trying to promote simplicity and inner beauty over the "arts" and fake outer beauty.

Giuseppina ScottoDiCarlo

"Come my Celia, let us prove"

I believe that in this poem, the writer is trying to seduce a woman and trying to convince her to have sex with him. While reading the poem I do see a similarity to some of Catullu's poems, especially to the ones he wrote to Lesbia (I read them in latin), and I also picked up on the reference to the latin saying "Carpe Diem". The writer believes that they shouldn't waste time and instead "Seize the Day" and make the most of it. He believes that there is no crime in trying to live his life to the fullest and so she shouldn't feel guilty nor shy to have sex with him.

Giuseppina ScottoDiCarlo

12 HR READ-A-THON = FUNNNNNNNNNNNNN

Okay so, I just wanted to let you guys know where I live.

My address is: 401 Parry Drive.
In case you can't find my house, my number is: 231-0405. I'll help you get here/

So from Main Street. Go down the street across from Passeriello's. That's High Street. Its just a really short street. Take a left onto Prospect. The second right is Parry which is my street. My house is the first corner of the 3rd block on the left side.

I guess I'll expect people starting at like 10:30? So that you're definitely there on time and everything. Remember to be on time!! He won't let anyone in late!!

For dinner, I figure the best solution would be to have pizza. If you guys can just bring like 3 dollars for pizza so that my parents don't have to put down a bunch of money, that'd be wonderful.

We have enough chairs for everyone. But I guess if you're picky about where you'll be sitting, bring your own chair. There will be a chair for you to sit in though, so don't bring one unless you have to. We definitely won't need any extra chairs just chilling.

CAN'T WAIT TO READ WITH YOU GUYS FOR 12 HOURS!! IT'LL BE A BLAST!!

In the Person of Woman-kind

The title of the poem makes you think that the poem is about women, and as soon as you read the first line you know this is true. The first line straight out tells you that a woman is speaking. This is totally my own analysis, but I say what I see in the first stanza: The lady says the men make the women sing over and over to other men (almost like bragging), even the the women really don't have any ambition to, but still do it for the men. Finally the speaker says that men should allow the ladies to brag of what they'd want to, and to not have to brag in front of the men's friends to make him look good.

All I have for now, if someone sees anything more or anything different please post!!!!

Man

I know these notes are a little late but they can help to study for the final. The man seems to me to be a very profound poem that Vauaghan wrote to explain to himself and others how humans think and live their life. In a broad sense the poem is divided into two sections. The first consists of the first two stanza's and they talk about nature and how it nature lives its life. The second part consists of the last two stanza's and they talk about the way man kind lives their lives. It seems ironic to me that the part of man kind is easier to read and understand than the first two stanza's. Vaughan gives three examples of how nature thinks by sowing us the birds, bees, and flowers. The basic point of these examples is to show us that nature does not ask why or what about something. Nature takes time as it is and whatever it brings. Nature also stays steady following the patterns of the seasons and what their genetic code tells them to do. They are not like humans where they are continually moving about and looking for change or better things. Nature is content with the present. Humans on the other hand tend to ask questoins about everything and why stuff happens. We are continually moving and don't have a home. We may think we have a home but it's not a permanent one as in nature of a plant or tree. Ww don't know exactly where our home is. We wander about this earth hoping to find one but we will never on this earth. Our permanent home will be found in either heaven or hell. There is one line in particullar that caught my attention: And intercourse of times divide. This seems to be complicated but it actually is quite simple. The time of the birds crosses the understanding of time by us. Time is whatever we make it and we divide it up so we can better understand it into minutes, hours, seconds, days, years, etc. The birds only understand time by that which is defined by the temperature and the seasons. IT is harder for us to udnerstand their time but easy for us to understand it as it is defined by our culture. Time is different in many cultures and it is whatever you make it.

though i am young!

the second stanza is giving me a little trouble. the first 4 lines im confused as to if Love caused the ruin or love remains in a ruin or if anything caused the ruin. I might be thinking a little to far into this. help? any thoughts?

Ben Jonson Biography

I thought I'd take the Jonson biography and just explain what I feel to be the most important points (aka the points I feel could be on the quiz). His birth on June 11, 1572 son of clergyman. Went to Westminster School and taught by scholar, William Camden. Did bricklaying for short amount of time until he decide to join Flanders. Returned to England-1592, married 1594.
Joined theator comp, Philip Henslowe in London in about 1597. He was also imprisoned then. Killed fellow actor in 1598, Gabriel Spencer. While in prison converted to Roman Catholism but soon (10 years) back to Anglicanism in 1610.
1598 a play of his was performed with Shakespeare in cast at Globe theator. It was his time of fame. In Poetaster (1601) he attacked dramatists and was attacked back by them in Satirmastix. In 1603 he once again got in trouble for a play he wrote and was imprisoned for controversial views.
Wrote Satyr in 1605 and was appointed Court Poet. Seemed Jon liked to write comedies, like his play in 1598 as well as others between 1605 and 1614. His folio came forth in 1616. He went to Scotland in 1618 and got MA degree and lectured rhetoric shortly after is return. In the 1620's he turned to writing masques=>(A dramatic entertainment, usually performed by masked players representing mythological or allegorical figures, that was popular in England in the 16th and early 17th centuries.) Poets that followed in his footsteps were called Cavalier Poets. He died in 1637 and buried at Westminster Abbey.

Its a heck of alot but atleast its less then the bio itself, hope it helps.

Though I am Young

This poem done by Ben Johnson is fairly easy to understand. However,the point the author is tryng to get across is very powerful. As you look at the title you see that the narrator of the poem is young in age. He/she does not fully grasp the whole idea of love or death, because they have not experienced them. The person, however is able to give us some keen insight on these two things as they are compared throughout the poem. It is known that both love and death cause pain. The narrator comes to the realization that in the end love conquers all. Even while death will inevitably have its way with you, that certain event will pass, and love will continue on after death.

The Retreat

Here are some of my notes from class about The Retreat. There are two different meanings of the title. The first meaning is a physical trip to get closer to God. One where you would normally go with some sort of church group. The second is a step backwards as in a millitary retreat but one where you retreat your mind to an early point in your life where you were innocent about God and the whole concept of religion. You have the best relationship with God when you are youngest in life because you know not of sin or temptation in an evil sense. As you get older temptation for sin becomes apparent to you and you can easily stray from having a strong relationship with God. The greatest glory in one's life would be to go our of your life as you had come in. Being innocent of all things of the world and having a strong relationship with God. There are also three different races which one goes through before during and after their life. THe first is before you are born. That is time spent your soul spends with God in heaven. This is the closest one will get with God. The second is your departure from God to come and live on this Earth. The third race is where you depart this Earth, hopefully innocent again, to hopefully reunite with God. You are never the same however, after living a life of sin on this Earth. I think this poem is very interesting and makes one think about the metaphysical world we live in.

Henry Vaughan

Much like George Herbert, it seems that Vaughan had a privileged childhood in regards to his education. He and his twin brother wer taught privatley then attended the college of Jesus at Oxford. Vaughan left college to study law in London but then joined the Royalists in the Civil War and Fought in South Wales. This experience could have influeneced him in his writing by making him more of a secular/physical thinking person rather than being more like Herbert who believed strongly in writing about God and religion in general. It seems to me that Vaughan was more interested in writing about women and people rather than God. This is appartent in his Poems with the Tenth Satire of Juvenal Englished in where he writes about Mrs. Katherine Phillips. Vaughan's first few sets of poetry are very much about the secular world, Women, and a metaphysical state of mind. He only starts to write about religion when he is inspired by Herbert's work. Vaughan's poetry greatly reflects Herbert's The Temple. Vaughan is still interested though in natural abjects and mystical communion with nature where Herbert seemed to wrire strictly about religion. Overall I think that Vaughan is a very interesting man who gives us a good mixture of religion and secular thoughts. I think that we can learn a good deal from Vaughan about how to connect these two topics in our own life. It's also interesting to see this metaphysical poetry evolve over the years from Donne to Herbert to Vaughan. This evolution can partly be attributed to the fact that Donne influenced Vaughan but only through what showed through Herbert.

Man by H. Vaughan

I'm having trouble figuring out what Vaughan is saying in his poem "Man". Just wondering if anyone has any ideas to what it main idea could be..

The Collar by Herbert

Just thought I'd point out some important things I found in Herbert's "The Collar.":

The poem is similar to Donne's Holy Sonnets in that it is violence against God or not against God, but violence that somehow involves God. The third meaning to Collar that most readers do not know is choler which is within one of the four humours- yellow vile which is anger. The rope described in line #22 isn't a physical rope, but as rope within the mind of the speaker. Throughout the entire poem the speaker is denying his faith with God, he's trying to escape the "collar" of religion...he's making his case until the final to lines, when he believes he heard the lord call to him "Childe" and in response he says "My Lord." By saying "My Lord" he's pretty much ending his argument and accepting the collar that restrains him from leaving the faith of God.
The form of the poem is quite random in that there is no set order to how the lines are setup, but this just adds to the speaker's attitude. The attitude in which the speaker has no real discipline toward rebellion, as we see he makes his case and quickly dismisses it when the Lord is present.

Donne, Herbert, Vaughan

These three poets are wrote in the metaphysical form. Donne came first living from 1572-1631 and his work seemed astonishing, the thought behind it is just unbelievable. Next to come was Herbert who was born in 1593 and lived until 1633. Not so much Herbert but, Vaughan who lived from 1621-1695, don't you think that if he took just the basic ideas from his two predessors that his poems should be the best of the best. Just my thoughts, but I guess it's tough to write any better then the great John Donne...

poetry night

I know i'm a little late about the poetry festivities, but i just wanted to mention some people missed out on some good stuff. I was surprised that i actually stayed the entire 2.5 hours. My favorite part of the night was the songs by tom and doug. they got some laughs and did a great job. congrats to the poetry peeps.

Easter-wings & Herbert

I know Kerth has pointed out alot of good things from Herbert's Bio along with from his poem Easter-Wings. I'm just going to go over different areas of the biography as well as different ideas I have come up with from Easter-Wings.

George Herbert's Biography- His family was quite wealthy and interesting to see that his mother was dedicated the Holy Sonnets by John Donne. Herbert's first two sonnets were sent to his mother in 1610 at the age of 17, right off the bat his poetry evolved around God. Herbert along with his mother had been loyal Anglicans, George was so loyal to them he became an active oppenent of the Puritans and Calvinists. You can see how high of ranking the family must have been by seeing John Donne delivered the funeral sermon his mother's funeral. In 1630 Herbert became rector at Bemerton, he'd do this until his death 3 years later. In the Biography this is when we really find out what kind of man he is. Herbert took his own money to help rebuild the church because he cared that much for his parishoners. He died at the young age of 40, which honestly is ashame because he could have produced many more good things if it hadn't been for his long period of ill health.
Easter-Wings-As kerth has pointed out the stanzas are setup in an interesting structure so that each stanza either starts good and ends bad are vice versa. The first stanza can be summed up as the fall of man from "wealth"(that in holiness) into the "decaying" of life in sinful nature. Thus we see by the width of the stanza it starts good and ends bad. In stanza two we see that Herbert wants to be with the Lord in the sky during his ressurrection. By the end of the stanza the speaker, whom I believe to be Herbert himself, he's completed the 2nd wing. The 3rd stanza starts off good and ends bad; he said in the beginning of his life it was sorrowful and says he wasn't free of punishment. By the end of this stanza he's saying that he's lost purity. Stanza four of course ends good because it is the end of the poem. Herbert tells the lord that he wants to be part of the victory, but not just part of the victory he wants to be a part of the Lord's wing. This ends the poem with Herbert wanting to be very close to the Lord, which is similar to real life because Herbert is so religious.

The imagery in the poem is really present, you can almost feel what's happening in the poem. Not to mention the visual appearence of the stanzas as well..

LOTR-a-thon UPDATE

Oh, my seniors! I come with news:

All three classes have spoken, with the vast majority of those interested in attending our little gathering in favor of June 10th, starting at 11:00 AM. We shall therefore call this date and time CONFIRMED.

Still outstanding is the question of LOCATION. Samantha P. has made the offer of her home; I only await parental confirmation of the acceptability of this offer. Upon recept of confirmation, if there are no other official hosting offers put forward, I will consider this choice as confirmed.

Once location is set, the official signup list will be presented to the classes. At that point, I will also ask the classes to choose where in LOTR they would like to begin reading. Be prepared to make that decision--again, majority rules. Remember that everyone attending the reading must come prepared with their OWN copy of the text--no sharing allowed.

All information will be passed along to my AP class as well; they are invited to participate in the reading, but will not be party to the choices presented to you.

That is all for now--enjoy the long weekend. At some point as you rejoice in the warmth of almost-summer, remember those who have fallen in the service of our country--this weekend is for them, after all.

LAZ

George Herbert/Easter Wings

After reading his biobragphy i foiund out that George Herbert was an amazing young man who did not let diversity get in his way of becoming educated. I think it is remarkable that he and his siblings all recieved a high quality education even though they were raised by their mother, sister and heiress to Sir Richard Newport. I also found it interesting that Donne and Herbert were close friends and that Donne even delivered the sermon at Herbert's mother's funeral. This also shows that Herbert's family was important and that the sermon must have been well written since Donne was the most respected Preacher in all of Europe at that time.
In regards to Easter-Wings I find it to be a poem that is giving glory to the lord but also criticizing him for giving up all his wealth and assets. By just looking at this poem one can see that there is a pattern to how it was written and that it must be important to the flow of how it should be read. The first and third stanza's go in a descending orderof words per line while the second and fourth go in an ascending order. I can compare this to a piece of music that starts out as a decrescendo but then gets louder and goes through a grescendo but repeats the process to finish with a bang. The lines of the corresponding stanza's also relate to each other. For instance the firt line fo the second and fourth stanza start with 'with thee' then continue to request something from God; 'o let me rist' 'let me combine'. The last lines of these two stanza's also relate to each other. They actually say the same thing but in different wording. The fall and affliction are both things that are negatvie but two things that will make the speaker stronger. The last two lines of the first and third stanza's also relate to one another. The second to last lines are 'Till he became' but then change to that 'that I became'. This shows that the reader has been chagned by the grace of God. The last lines 'Most poor' and 'Most thinne' both show that there is nothing to either the lords name or the speaker's name that makes sense or is valuable in any way. Overall I like this poem and am looking forward to disscussing it in class.

Poetry Night

Just got back from poetry night, and it really wasnt that bad! It was a pretty laid back affair, and it was nice that they gave out food and refreshments too. The $4 fee to get in wasn't so bad since first it was going to a good cause and second they gave out the free food/drinks. Amazing how many people came and how some of the participants that read were that intense..

12-Hour Readathon? Possible date?

How about.. June 10th? That's sounding good to me.

A Poetry Event

Scholars--

While I realize the extreme unliklihood that you will see this during your time amid the wild festivities of prom weekend, I wanted to post this immediately, just in case.

Tuesday May 22, 2007 at 8 p.m.

The National Arts Club presents

A CELEBRATION OF HAIKU AND BASEBALL WITH BILLY COLLINS

Former poet laureate of the United States and bestselling author
Billy Collins will read from and talk about his recent book of haiku,
"She Was Just Seventeen." Former president of the Haiku Society of
America Cor van den Heuvel will then read and discuss haiku from his
new book "Baseball Haiku" (published by W.W. Norton and co-edited
with Nanae Tamura), and three of the featured poets in the book--Alan
Pizzarelli, Ed Markowski, and Brenda Gannam--will read their baseball
haiku.

Wine reception to follow.

The event is free and no reservations are required.

The National Arts Club
15 Gramercy Park South
New York City

At the moment, I am planning on attending, because it's Billy, and that's not to be missed. I thought I would inform you all of this opportunity. My plan would be to take the train from Trenton to Penn Station, then probably walk the few additional blocks. If any of you would like to join me, you are welcome along.

Please understand--this is not an official field trip, and I am in no way taking responsibility for you. If you should choose to go, you are taking responsibility for yourself and your own conduct.

See you in class--

LAZ

mi amigo John Donne

I actually love all of these poems by John Donne. They are hard as anything to understand. However the concepts and comparisons are very deep and really make you think. I have had to have help understanding each one. But once I understand them, I really don't want to class discusion to end. Moreover, these poems make you take a look at your own life and how love or whatever the subject may be fits into your life.

The Things They Carried

Even though we read it over a week ago I'd like to say I really enjoyed "The Things They Carried." I liked reading this type of literature a lot more than others we have read. The main idea of the story showed that many soldiers carry more mentally than they do physically. I like how the author weighted everything that they carried to show this theme. There were definately parts of this story that put the reader in the minds of these young men at war.There were also other instances of symbolism that I liked. The main characters name, " Jimmy Cross", "JC" represented Jesus Christ.They are both similar because they both hold a burden and responsibility for others. But by the end of the story,Jimmy Cross realized that he most put his focus on his men and not his perspective love life.

Paul Martel

Sonnet 14

Thought it was interesting when reading the sonnet that the speaker praises God at both the beginning and end of the poem. The idea of God brought up with 3 person (father, son, holy-spirit) shows Donne's traditional orthodox approach to his writing. These sonnets allow us to see Donne's ideas toward religion. Lastly would like to note the metaphors in Sonnet 14; him(his heart) compared to a town, and him being maiden to God's enemy.

-Vincent V.

Sonnet 14

I think a lot of people can relate with this sonnet because Donne is basically saying that he has so many regrets that he is pleading with God to make him new. I get the feeling Donne feels that he can't take back some of the horrible things he has done.

To say he has sided with the enemy is to admit that you have messed up throughout life, and you just kneel before God and ask Him to break you away from the enemy and take me in, until I am once again sober.

Paul Morrison

For Pd.10

Pd. 10 scholars:

We'll be looking at the work of a new poet tomorrow--George Herbert. I'll be doing a bit of biography to start with, but you'll want to read the first poem for our discussion--it's called "Easter Wings." You can find a copy of it here: http://www.luminarium.org/sevenlit/herbert/herbbib.htm

See you tomorrow--

LAZ

Pd. 11 - "The Flea"

Hello, everyone! This post is really only for Pd. 11, for whom I had neglected to run off copies of the next poem - John Donne's "The Flea," which you can find at http://www.luminarium.org/sevenlit/donne/flea.php

Sorry about the lateness of this post...

And to everyone--you're doing some fine work here--keep it up!

LAZ

The Flea and Holy Sonnets

After reading these three different poems I have come to the conclusion that the Flea is much harder to understand than the holy sonnets. While i get the basic gist of the poem that he thinks of the flea as a thing that unites them in something greater than marriage, I find that it has a good deal of symbolism and hidden meanings in every line which makes it confussing and harder to read and understand. I do get though that he and his lover have been sheltered from the outside world by their parents and this has given them some crazy notions of self killing. He didn't want to believe that the flea was real but once it came and it bit both of them he like the flea becuas their blood now mixed in one thing and this brought them together closer. He also say's that when the flea dies it will take the life from him because the flea held there lives safe and together and peaceful. It was their wedding ring. I agree with chase that this poem is so ridiculous that it is almost comical.
The sonnets are much easier to read and I liked them more. For the first one I understood it to say the he wants salvation from God because he's seent he angles and how they have been healed of there afflictions from earth. He knows that it's too late to ask for it when he reaches heaven so he's calling out to God now so that he can live forever with the countless number of angels. The second sonnet is along the same lines as the first but it describes his feelings of salvation in more detail. It is a much more realization on his part that he can no longer solve his problems by himself so he wants to give it all up to God and knows that if he does this his temptation to be with the enemy will go away and his life will be taken care of. He says that God can come into him and exert his mighty power to liberate him form the enemy but never from God himself. He will always be held by God.

Holy Sonnets VII

i know we haven't read this or discussed it as a class yet but this is my stab at what i think it says.


At the round earth's imagined corners blow
Your trumpets, angels, and arise, arise
From death, you numberless infinities
Of souls, and to your scattered bodies go ;
-hey, angles from all around everywhere is the world, get up and go to all your dead bodies.


All whom the flood did, and fire shall o'erthrow,
All whom war, dea[r]th, age, agues, tyrannies,
- all who died from flood, fire, war, death, age, ect.


Despair, law, chance hath slain, and you, whose eyes
Shall behold God, and never taste death's woe.
-everyone that believes will have the grace of god and have eternal life and not go to hell.

But let them sleep, Lord, and me mourn a space ;
-(TURN!! remember it's a sonnet)lord, please accept them with open arms

For, if above all these my sins abound,
'Tis late to ask abundance of Thy grace,
When we are there. Here on this lowly ground,
-since it is too late for me to ask grace and forgiveness after i die,


Teach me how to repent, for that's as good
As if Thou hadst seal'd my pardon with Thy blood.
- please teach me to repent now while I'm still alive before it is too late

The beginning has a more melancholy tone with talking about past deaths, but after the turn it switches to what can be done before death to ensure eternal life. and the end is more introspective than the beginning which is more general.
This poem tells you just how religious Donne was. (Duh, he was a preacher). i also think this is a big reflection on the time in which it was written, people knew that they could suffer and perhaps die at any moment because of the iron fist rule of the British monarchy with king James.

-Marisa Toniatti

the flea!

my question is why would john donne write a poem about a flea bringing his lover and him together by sucking both of their blood, when his lover wants to kill the flea? The speaker says so much about how the flea makes the two people connected and then how his lover wants to kill the flea. I also questioned how the flea is the marriage bed.

i guess his lover doesnt feel the same about him if she wants to kill this symbolic flea.

-andrea salva

The Flea

So after discussing The Flea in class tomorrow, I am pretty sure that this poem has been my favorite so far. The radical thinking made me laugh and the idea of it all was rather amusing. Honestly, who thinks that it is ok to have sex with someone if they are both bitten by a flea. That is in no way, shape, or form related to marriage or any type of union for that mattter. I think that I liked this poem so much because it is so out there in it's rationilization that I can understand it. What does everyone else think?

The Canonization by John Donne

This poem seems to be just as good as John's first poem we read. The way I take the poem is the speaker talks to someone who disapproves of the speaker's love affair with his lover. The speaker tells that person to be quiet (hold your tongue) or to criticize the speaker for something other than love. The speaker states that he's done no harm or foul by loving and that things would be the same whether he loved the person or if he didn't love the person. Their love must be very strong because the speaker states that if they can't live with their love then they'll die with it.
The speaker also hopes that these poems of him and his lover will "canonize" them, I take it that he means they will never be forgotten cause these poems will always be read. (we're reading them some 300 years after they were written) The speaker believes he's the saint of love and hopes that lovers of the future will look to this poem for guidance.

-Vincent V.

Metaphysical Conceit

I just looked a little bit more into metaphysical conceit because I didn't really understand it. What I read was that metaphysical conceit goes into great depth comparing two objects that are completely unlike. This concept is different in comparision to Petrarchan conceits which would compare two more closely related objects. The example I read was that a Petrarchan conceit would be comparing a rose and love. A metaphysical conceit is supposed to be a complex logic and should govern the whole poem. The point is to to shock the reader and get them to look at something in a new way.

Apparently the metaphysical conceit in A Valediction: Forbidden Mourning is comparing the union of two lovers to the legs of a compass.

I also looked up cavalier poetry. And I had thought that cavalier poetry was supposed to fit the metaphysical model. But what I read compared the two, and apparently cavalier poetry is supposed to be a more straightforward expression while the metaphysical poets would use metaphors and imagery.

Yeah, I don't know.

jonathan donne

i was just reading something on donne, a little biographical history, when i realized where the fire of his poems come from. yeah, we all learned in class that he lost his wife while she was giving birth, and he loved her so incredibly much. but it seems that is not all that he lost so quickly during his lifetime. He lost his father when he was just 3 or 4, and lost several of his siblings early in his life also. he lost a lot of loved ones during his life.

that plus an education at the U of Oxford, AND the U of Cambridge produced a pretty darn good writer, who i as well as many others have had a really difficult time understanding. i see that as a good thing, its a challenge to read and actually has meaning beneath its puzzling, upscale english. one thing is for sure though, his poetry is definitely not flat and boring.

--Ricky Singh

posting about poems before read in class

just giving a few thoughts about the flea before we read it in class so i'm not restateing what we aready said

Donne seems to be liking the idea that when your in love two hearts become one because as he wrote that him and his wife were a compas he now is writing about how his blood and his wife's blood are in this flea and making them one. i don't think that they were married before this point by the way that hes writing about her.

the idea of love and fleas doesn't seem natural either, posably
one of his conceates?? humm maybe?? but the idea that their blood together to for one make sences in a deep dark kind of way which i think was his intention. it fits Donne's M.O. to do something like that. Blood could go the was of death and infection and goar but it could also go the way of passion and love and all that mushy stuff, exactly what i would expect from donne

the one thing throwing me for a loop now is the talk of death and sin the the second stanza. the theme of death is not a far reach from the subject matter but why put it in when he is talking about his wife? it doesn't make sence to me yet and i'm intrested to see where he is going with that.

noticing the droped hits about how he had to hide away to marry his wife "though parents grudge. and you, we're met, and cloister'd in these living walls of jet." makes the bio about him seem more real and makes you realize that parents were still a pain way back in the day

- Zack Gross

I must be really slow because I can;t understnad these poems. Everyone else has some hint as to what he's saying but i really can't get it. can anyone help?

-andrea salva

Donne

I really like how John Donne contrasts spiritual love vs. physical love, in A Valediction: Forbidding Mourning. When I first read the poem, it was a little over my head but now I understand the message he was trying to get across. Donne uses a series of metaphors to produce the idea of him and his lover's separation. He says their souls are one and compares it to gold, meaning gold can be stretched by beating it, just like their love can be stretched to withstand the time apart from one another.

The Canonization is written as if someone opposed his love. He stands up for his love and emotions throughout the poem. He doesn't care what the opposing person thinks or says, as long as he can still love. To him, love is the most important thing in his life.

Jenn Headley

A Valediction: Forbidden Mourning Good or Bad?

This poem seemed very bad at first, but once i understood the words and the meaning it was really good. Donne used metaphors an similies to describe how to people's love can stay together in ways i did not know could be done. He is a good poet and knows how to put his words together in ways most writers can't.

John Donne's Poems

When reading the biography of Donne you see that he was around during the times of Henry VIII, Elizabeth I, James I, and Charles I. He got to see everything that happened with the religion in England and even became part of it. He was Catholic, but by the end of his life he was writing things against that religion (amazing what time can do). Anyways to the poems and their meanings, well atleast what I see. In the first poem Forbidding Mourning the difference is that he is speaking of spiritual love rather then physical love. This poem to me perfectly illustrates how Jone Donne is very spiritual. In the poem is says that no matter how far they are nothing will ever break them apart and he compares the relationship of the two lovers to a compass which is important symbol. In The Canonization you can see that the "addressee" if you will disapproves of the love affair occurring. And the speaker states that if the lovers' love cannot occur in the real world well then it'll become legend in poetry for future lovers to look upon. All I got out of them thus far....

John Donne

I find John Donne to be a very interesting person who was very smart and had an attitude about him that he wanted to do his own thing. This is exemplified by his imprisonment by Sir Thomas Egerton for his seccret love with his Egerton's daughter. I think that Donne was one of those people who gave anything he did 100 percent of his effort even if he didn't think that he would be good at it. This work ethic was shown in his development as a preacher. At first Donne wasn't sure if he would be good at it but over time he developed his style and become one of the best preachers ever known. He was also fond of reading anything and gaining any information possible. This also shows his hard work ethic. The two poems are hard to understand the first time you read them. I think that the first one about forbiding mourning is more easily understood than the second one which is written with a lot of symbolism that hides the message. If you read it more than oncce though and analyze it closer it will make more sense. I can see why Donne was such a popular preacher. His subjects addressed issues that were not normal for that period of time. His poem about forbbidding mourning suggests that we should celebrate a life since it is starting to live its eternal life. This was a rather rennassance based idea and that's what people wanted since he was writing right after rennasance and just at the beggining of the reformation. Overall I don't like these poems as much as the things they carried but it does give a glimpse into the thinking of that time period. If anyone can elaborate on meaning of any the two poems but especially the second one that would be great.

things they carried

After reading this, i realized how much i would love to go back to reading an actual book instead because various reading assignments is really pointless except for the fact that we see many different styles of writing, but its crammed into a short amount of time. I thought that the weight topic in the things they carried was interesting. I thought that it represented the weight that each man carried for the rest of his life because of the scars from the war. It also showed that no matter how much gear that you carried, the weight of intangable things and feelings always weighed more. Also, I like how the author used Cross as the guys last name. His initials are also JC like Jesus Christ. Jesus also carried, and was crucified on a cross. He gave up himself for his people like Lt. Cross did in the story. He burned the letters and photos and gave up his own personal thoughts to make sure that his soldiers were safe. I thought that was interesting.

--RJ Murray

Life after Ms. Hughes

I think that the rest of this marking will be relatively easy compared to the first two marking periods where we learned about books that were very old and had not relevance to our culture today. I think that the things they carried is much more interesting Beowulf, Hamlet, even 451 and BNW. This marking period should seriously help my grade since all that has to be done is read and take a quiz on comprehension. The subject matter also helps to keep me interested inthe class and actually pay attention. While this last half won't be as easy as the first half was under Ms. Hughes, I think that it will still be easier than our previous three marking periods. There's only six weeks to go and we already survived most of the year.

New Quiz Policy

When Lazarow first told us that we would have quizzes everyday for the rest of the year I thought it was crazy. But by the end of class I realized that it would be better to have quizzes everyday then to have suprise quizzes. As long as you read the material like your supposed too, you'll be alright for the quiz. I don't want to name names but I think that some people need as many good grades 4th marking period as possible to pass. And I dont think anyone is suprised that Lazarow isnt letting us slack off for the next 6 or 7 weeks of the school year. A lot of teachers might, especially for seniors, but as we all know beginning from the first day of the year Lazarow has no problem being different.


Paul Martel

MMM HEY

Okay, so I carry a lot of stuff with me all day. I knew we were going to have to do this assignment too, I probably should have cleaned out my purse. I think I have a whole page typed of just what trash was in my purse. Nice.

So I was actually wondering if anyone could give me a little bit of insight on what we talked about Monday. I had to leave in the middle of the class for a dentist appt. I left basically exactly when he stopped talking about quizzes everyday and was about to go into the lecture. Help please? Trust me, I wasn't happy to be leaving class. I would have rather been there. She filled two cavities and changed all my fillings to clear. I was so numb it felt like I could have eaten my tongue.

I should probably blog less about my life and more about English class. But I don't know what we did. So I need to. So we can talk about it. Lets make Laz happy.

I could talk about the reading. Which I actually really liked. It kind of annoyed me how creepily obsessed with Martha Jimmy Cross was, but I understood that they kept referring back to it because that was the reason that Ted Lavender died. I really liked the way the story was told because it's kind of different insight on people -- looking @ what they carry and what is really significant in their life. I also liked how it seemed kind of like O'Brien was a character because he was narrating, but he was all in the minds of other people. And I don't care how lucky you thought it was, I would never carry around a dead man's thumb.

holy sonnet VII (7)

did a little research on the holy sonnets since Laz said its what Donne's famous for and found out that his brother and wife died when he was writing them so i guess we can't expect the happy go lucky sonnets that i know we were looking forward to.

the sonnet is reffering to parts of the bible i know that but what part i'm not sure. He talks first about a time when the word of god was all over the globe and it was happy then talks about a time when people were sinful he goes to say; leave them alone god and liston to me mourning. he says he wants to repent for being like them and wants to be totally forgiven.

the sonnet is more like a prayre for forgiveness reminds me of the theme of beowulf that at one time things we're better and since then things have changed and people are not as noble but rather than noble people aren't as dedicated to god ... sounds pretty puritan to me

- Zack Gross

Good Luck Thumb

I really like the point of view from which this story is told, and the brief introductions and descriptions of each of the soldiers, and at one point the narrator describes superstitions good luck charms, Norman Bowker carries a thumb from a VC corpse, how is that considered a good luck charm for the Vietnam solider?

Angela Tontaro

I like the reading. I'm just wondering why the O'brien relates back to Jim Cross and Ted Lavender so much. I'm just wondering if those guys have some bigger meaning.

i liked how in one of the paragraphs that described Kiowa after Ted died the text said: "He wished he could find some great sadness, or even anger, but the emotion wasn't there and he couldn't make it happen." I got a real idea that the soliders we're becoming numb to their own feelings and everything going on around them. All they wanted was to stay alive for themselves. it's really interesting to get this kind of perspective from someone who was with all these soliders during the war.
-andrea salva

What They Carried

I agree with O'Brien about why the carry such items during the Vietnam War, and how he explains each reason in each new paragraph. I think it's strange how he mentions Martha every other second and relates Lavender's death to his own fault in relation to constantly thinking about Martha. It also confuses me how he believes that burning the pictures and letters will help him through it. I also think that O'Brien is somewhat of a confused person in general because of the sketchy pattern in which he writes his story.

Paul Morrison

things they carried

this new reading doesn't seem to bad i think how he is starting out each paragraph in a really factual way and then transitions into a more personal side of the character. I start to get an idea that the more discription of the character the more important they will be. but is this a prereading to the book or is this just taken from the book?

-Z Gross

The Hearth and the Salamader

I think this chapter foreshadowed a future conflict with another fireman with someone programming the mechanical hound to attack him. Montag's relationship with Beatty is also strained because he feels that Montag has been acting differently. Now Montag is starting to disassociate himself the other firemen, much different than his feelings toward them earlier in the story. He feels guilty when the woman burns, and the other firemen don't even think twice about it. Montag also steals a book while at the woman's house and mentions that he did it without even thinking. He mentions that it was his hands not himself or through his own thinking that stole the book. This brings up the idea that Montag is subconsciously doing certain things.It is also mentioned that Clarisse is dead and her family moved away but it takes a while for Montag to find out. Montag's state of mind has as a whole ends up being greatly affected by the woman’s death in the house. He begins to dislike his job more and more and continues to develop a curiosity for books. I wonder how much longer Montag will last acting the way he is.


Paul Martel

Fahrenheit 451

In the last part of this book, there were a couple of references and connections to the Bible. The first one was how he only remembered the book of Ecclesistes. In that book it says that there is "a time to be born and a time to die, a time to plant and a time to uproot, a time to kill and a time to heal, a time to tear down and a time to build". This directly relates to what the people must do now after their city has been bombed. It has been uprooted, torn down, and killed. Now they must plant, rebuild, and heal as a society. They must realize their mistakes and be born again throught their ashes like a pheonix.

He also quotes Revelations 22:2 saying "on each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yeilding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations". This is reffering to the river of life that God is prophesized to make that runs throught the New Jeruselum. It is to rebuil the world and heal the nations after the apocolopse. Since the city was just bombed like an apocolopse, he sees two trees that he thinks are the trees the Bible reffers to and they will rebuild the world and heal it to its rightful way.

I really dont like the way the book ended. It ended with them traveling back to the city to tell people of books and "convert" them and help them to see their wrongs. It would have beem better to show the world back to normal or at least getting there, not end it before the healing process even begins. Bradbury could have done better.


--RJ Murray

BNW ends

I didn't enjoy the ending of BNW because it really didn't wrap the story up. I didn't like how the author decided to make John majorly depressive and hang himself in a few pages. It looked like the Huxley just needed a tragic ending so he put those pages in to fill space. The story was coming together, but I still don't understand why Huxley incorporated this ending. My reason behind that being that John was totally calm and understanding when speaking with Mustapha Mond, and was really depressed at all. John just wanted to go back to the uncivilized home that he was comfortable with. Instead he goes to an island where he becomes depressed and angry.
I also didn't understand how he was taking a lot of soma and whipping himself and Lenina, I don't understand how that relates with anything at all because I thought soma was supposed to make u feel better. The last few chapters, I think, really threw off the whole story in the sense that it was finally making sense.

Paul Morrison

451

I'm up to page 130 now and the story is starting to get very suspenseful with Montag being on the run. The scene where he is attempting to cross the boulevard is very exciting becuase the beetle is approaching but you don't know if it is the cops or not. When the car passes and Montag makes the connection that it might have been the ones who killed Clarisse it is a thoguht that brings the reader and Montag back to the beliefs and actions of Clarisse. I find it a bit ironic that he wouldn't be crossing the street if he hadn't of known Clarisse but his change of mind didn't really come until he fouind out that she had died. So for him to encounter the possible car that killed her while he was doing the same thing she was doing (for all we know she could of been running away also) is some what ironic. It's as if there is a natural element in this society that gets rid of people like this. People who think differently and disturb the peace. The 'normal' people don't cross the street and for good reasons. The one's who are not 'normal' must cross the streets to get away and in this way the streets are a tool to kill these people. I find it bery brave and rightgeous of Montag to place those books in the house of his fellow fireman. I felt as though he gained revenge on the people that held him down by doing this and by burning Beatty. Montag is certainly out to change the world.

BNW

So we have I test tomorrow! I am reading Brave new world and I don't really understand it as much as I did F451. I really liked F451. It felt like it had a better story line. In BNW, the 1st main character, Bernard, seemed like he should have gone against the system more. He didn't believe in it and knew it was wrong but then he didn't want to look like an outsider so he tried to fit in. I don't understand why he wouldn't jump in and help John when he got into the fight with the people at the hospital. He could have really shown what he believed in by joining in with John but he chose not to. John being the one to fight the system was kind of boring. It was so expected because it would have been like one of us seeing this "World State" and we obviously wouldn't agree with it either. It should have been someone from within that fought against it like in F451. I think it made F451 more interesting. So good luck on the test everyone!

Personally, I like Brave New world over 451. I'm reading 451 now, and it's good and has a good story line and yeah...it's easier to understand. But i just like how in BNW the ways of the society are explained in the beginning. Also i liked how in BNW the society was so used to their lives that it was so out of the ordinary for a person to "rebel" agaisnt their ways. In 451 i feel like people get away with their indepence more. I hope that makes sense. In BNW i feel like its more intense and realistic for a society to be that way, rather than in 451 where firemen are being called to a house to burn books.

Also in 451, i feel like the only thing they do in their society is ban books. The author doesnt go into detail about other things the society is against. I know that Clarisse died for being a "thinker" and went against what the society was telling her, but i feel like 451 didn't explain what is right and wrong in their society.

-andrea salva

Fahrenheit 451

I finished reading the first part of the story, “The Hearth and the Salamanter” and it was mostly about Montag being a fireman and his home life. At the beginning of the book, Montag loves his job burning books, and takes pride in it. Montag doesn’t know the purpose of doing it but likes it because it makes him like everyone else. He meets a teenage girl named Clarisse, who recognizes him as a fireman and starts talking to him. Clarisse is different than most people because she does not care about his reputation. She introduces him to nature and shows him that he can be an individual. After talking with Clarisse, Montag realizes that inside he is not really happy. I think that now Montag’s behavior will continue to change throughout the story.


Paul Martel

Why couldn't 451 be in Chapter format?

I was just thinking about it, I wonder why Fahrenheit 451 wasn't written in Chapter form. I haven't looked into the author's other books, maybe it's a style of his, but I could definitely see the book written in Chapter form with no problems. Just wondering what everyone thinks, and their ideas to why he wouldn't put it in chapter form.

451

Having read most of 451 now, I find it much more interesting than Brave New World. I feel that it more of a realistic book that actually has a plot that can be followed rather easily. I also find it interesting how the ways of the society in which Montag lives are presented to the reader. For example, late in section two the narrator describes Montag stopping at the bank, to get the money for the printer, which is oppened all the time with robot tellers working. This shows thourgh the context of the plot that their banks are differnt than ours and that they as a society have evolved their mentality of what are appropriate hours to bank. The people of this future society have made it the most convenient to bank and the author has showed this in a way that is not blatant to the reader as being a fact of that society. Throughout this book there are examples of this and by having these facts and descriptions of the soceity intertwined with the plot it allows the story to flow and evolve easier than I believe the story did in Brave New World. By the way what class would Faber be? He's smart but has cowardice.

Clarisse McClellan

I guess I want to talk about the fact that I don't think the author, Ray Bradbury, should have killed off Clarisse McClellan so early on. She really made Montag think and wounder. Also, she put things in perspective for the reader helping to compare our world with theirs. And since the author did kill her off so early I believe that he should have at least introduced her after Mildred. I know that Clarisse was a very important charecter in this book. However, to introduce her first and the let her die so early is very rare and not very well put together. I really liked her, all though she was pretty much a loner and a high school drop out. She was wicked bright. Moreover, she had a great logic and way of producing thoughts in her mind.

Hannah Reissmann

Fahrenheit & BNW so sad!

I have just finished reading Fahrenheit and IN THE FOLLOWING SENTENCES I AM GIVING AWAY THE ENDINGS, but for the most part just like Brave New World its grim. Just wondering if everyone sees it this way, I mean I read BNW first and the ending seems very sad with the savage (John) hanging him. Then I read Fahrenheit and the whole city they had lived in is blown to pieces with many people dying, luckily not Montag. Just I can imagine people imagining these stories let alone people enjoying them so much. It's ashame in Brave New World John couldn't live on in a happy life, and ashame that Montag doesn't meet Clarisse again to make him happy. Just my thoughts on both books, just wondering how everyone else is feeling..

BNW: John (Savage)

In BNW, when Linda is dying, the Savage is now kneeling next to her bed in the "death hospital". I noticed when reading John is trying to remember all of the good memories with his mother, he fails to remember them as good ones. He states that "there was only a hateful resurrection of jealousies and uglinesses and miseries." This quote states that in this world, John is totally lost and only feels hatred and confusion.
There is also reference to an actual God. John keeps repeating "Oh, God, God, God..." when Linda has died in the hospital. One of the twins going through death conditioning hears him and is totally and utterly confused, to which the head nurse reacts quickly and gives the children chocolate. John is probably going to be in a great deal of trouble in this society because of the many rules he has broken and lines he has crossed.
I predict that John is going to be sent back the Savage Reservation, but this is what he wants because of all the horrible memories he has in this new society he is "trapped" in. Now that he has dealt with Lenina, and he still has to see Helmholtz before anything major can occur.

Paul Morrison

451: Mildred

When Montag is telling his reasons to Farber about why he wants Farber to help him understand the books, Montag makes a reference to his wife Mildred saying that she is dying. Is Mildred really dying, or does she subconsciously want to commit suicide with the sleeping pills? Does Montag want her to die, since he really doesn’t show much affection towards her anyway?

Angela Tontaro

when i got into reading the end of the first part and starting the second part, i had alot more questions.

1. what was going on when Beatty started talking about how Clarisse died?
At first i thought i read that Montag's wife had killed her, i didnt really understand what was going on. The fact is that maybe she could have killed her i guess because maybe she found out that he liked her, but the only problem with that is is that she was hit by a car, so its confusing.

2. Was there any significance in the fact that Montag felt bad about having that woman be burned alive and the other firemen didnt have any remorse?

3. why did Montag take that book?


4. what exactly was Beatty's responce to what the woman quoted from the book she had read?

5. In the second part of the book, Montag says that his wife is dying?
is she really dying or is she just really depressed and stuff and maybe feeling like shes not doing anything anymore that she WANTS to die.




i did however figure out exaactly what Montag's job was, which was to burn books in general

BNW coming together

As I read more into Brave New World the title makes more and more sense. This far in the story Bernard has totally shown bravery in its' highest aspect, by embarassing the director infront of the world leaders. By doing this, Bernard has showed the rest of the people that surround him that he actually can think on his own two feet. We all know by now, none of the other characters would step forth like that. It makes the reader wonder what Bernard's next action will be, whether it will be another brave one or just to let this one sink in completely. The new world will hopefully include more bravery such as the past example. The book is also making a lot more sense now that it is coming together as an actual story. The characters are evolving and becoming more like actual people rather than clones that are alive for only one purpose.

I still don't understand why Huxley would choose to write about such a provacative society when this was strongly opposed in the time that it was written. I also don't fully understand why the hospital for children is for death, and the death conditioning process.

Paul Morrison

Fahrenheit 451

I think that the title of this section represents Montag and his struggle to obtain the information in books. Like how he tried to fill sieve with sand but the sand kept falling through, Guy is trying to soak up as much information and knowledge as he can through books because he thinks that something is in them that is important. The only thing is that he is retaining none of it, or close to none like a sieve would. He is only retaining the big chunks and not all of the little ones.

Also, in this section, Faber reads Guy the book of Job from the Bible. I think that this is very siuting to what Guy is going through. In the story of Job, God and the Devil made a bet to see how he would react when the Devil made bad things happen to him. God here is represented by Faber who is standing for the right thing where Beatty is the Devil and is standing for all the wrong things. In the Bible though, Job still praises God and doesn't turn against him and start to hate him like most people would. I believe that Guy will do the same thing. In the end, even with all of the pressure of Beatty, he will realize what is right and go with it like Job did.


--RJ Murray

Bernard & the director

In chapter 10 in Brave New World, the director is on the verge of sending Bernard to Iceland, because Bernard simply does not fit into the society and is considered an outcast. But before he has a chance, Bernard switches it around and puts all the shame on the director instead. Bernard proves to be a very smart character and embarasses the director in front of all of the world state members. I find that act a very selfish one on Bernard's part. He should have brought Linda and John to the director in private but I guess in their society, it doesn't really matter because no one really has privacy. Plus, by shunning the director in front of all those people, Bernard receives more credit for stepping up and showing them he was capable of doing such a courageous act. I think he knows it will give him social status in the new world and keeps that in mind because people already think low of him. It also shows that he is sort of desperate in a way because he'll do anything to gain some sort of social power.

One thing I found particularly disturbing was the children in the death hospital. First of all, the hospital is just for dying people? And why are the children going through death conditioning? Can someone explain?

--Jenn Headley

Is Guy Montag right or wrong?

Montag through the convincing of Clairisse becomes convinced that books should be brought back into their society. After taking the book from the old women's house he right away talks to Faber about duplicating the copy of the "bible." Montag through occassionally reading these books believes that books should be brought back into society despite him having nobody on his side to back him up besides Faber. Beatty knows what Montag is up to, and he definitely shows no feelings toward Montag, he even has the hound spying on him. Do you guys think its right that Montag is trying to bring back something that he has no support for...because I don't.

Today in class, Laz pointed out that BNW was a mythical archetype story. I was blind sided by that because i thought we were done with those kinds of stories. I didn't realize that Hemholzt was the person who got what he wanted in the end. I thought that was interesting.

Also, we discussed how F451 is an archetype story as well. I tried to understand how Clarisse could die so early in the story, and Laz pointed out that Clarisse was the guide for Montag. She had to die for Montag to go on with his "mission" of finding out who he was.

why is it that i never pick up on these things? haha
-Andrea Salva

Fahrenheit 451

In response to Paul Martel's comment about how the feelings of Guy and Bernard are somilar in relation to society. I don't think that they feel the same way about society at all. Yes, Guy does not like the current society and is beging to question the morality of it, Bernard on the other hand never said that he did not like his society. He just did not like how he was on the outside and not one of the normal ones because he was a smaller alpha. When he brings the "savage" John into the spotlight, he is extreamely happy and elated because he is now popular and he then abides and follows willingly the standards of society. So I really do not think that you can relate their feelings to each other.

--RJ Murray

Revolt coming in Brave New World?

In Brave New World, there are certain world leaders, such as Mustapha Mond. If I were one of these world leaders, I would think something is wrong. Although Mustapaha tells the reader that "history is bunk", he should pay more attention to it. In the past, conformity has been attempted, and failed. I believe that the main reason to the failed attempts is because of a revolution. I also believe if one is to give up his freedom, he is tempted to regain it through a fight.

Today in class, we spoke about how Benjamin Franklin believed that if one were to give up his freedom for the guarentee of being safe, one should get neither. I agree fully in the fact that you shouldn't have to give anything up just for a simple personal security. In Brave New World everyone gave up not only they're freedom but the society that they now call "savage". History already shows us if you push everybody into conformity, if one revolts, they all follow. If I were one of the world leaders I would definately look into revolutions, and work to prevent one from breaking out.

Paul Morrison

Fahrenheit 451

The more I read Fahrenheit the more I seem to enjoy it. Brave New World was interesting but at times it got a little too strange with all the sex and soma. The character of Guy Montag in Fahrenheit can be related to people in our society because he is questioning some of the norms of society. Montag begins to realize that he is just like all of the other firemen and wonders why he is burning books in the first place and even decides to occasionally take them instead. He is also starting to feel guilty about burning people's houses and feels responsible when the woman burns herself. I think it will be interesting to see how this change works out for him.

Paul Martel

Fahrenheit 451

I just started reading Fahrenheit 451 and I think it is very strange just like Brave new World. Both societies are futuristic and are based on conformity. I'm not sure what book I like more yet but I do think that Fahrenheit 451 is easier to read. I think that the similarity between the feelings of Bernard and Montag to their societies are very similar. Montag is starting to realize that he doesnt enjoy life as much as he thought he did. he is starting to question the idea of burning books. I look forward to continue reading Fahrenheit 451 to see what happens next.

Paul Martel

Fahrenheit 451

I'm obviously reading Fahrenheit...and I'd just like to say that I think I like this more than Brave New World. Although BNW was very interesting to me, i think F451 is a lot more on my level. Not just with reading but also that someone could possibly relate to the story. Someone like Guy Montag who wants to explore more than the norm of the society is very similar to teens these days. Not saying that our society burns books because we don't want to read or become more intelligent, but a lot of teenagers these days want to be different and express themselves in other ways. Everyone wants to know more, and that's what Guy is trying to achieve. Sadly, i think Guy will not succeed in his attempt to expanding his knowledge, just because the author might want to make a point about a society that is over controlling.

I hope there is more background to how this society is functioning. In BNW the author mentioned a lot about what was right and wrong in their society, but in F451 i haven't read much of that. (other than reading books, or having books is forbidden)

I'm anxious to see how F451 turns out. When i read BNW i was very dissapointed with the ending, even if it did have a deeper meaning than what was written.

-Andrea Salva

Brave New World

As I read more into this book, I find it a little easier to understand. The society as a whole is a completely bizzare outlook on a possible future. I don't understand why the author started the book with the conditoning center and that whole world and then suddenly in the middle of the story, decides to introduce the savage reservation in new mexico. The two different 'worlds' are pretty much opposite from their everyday activities and even to the way people are associated with each other. For instance, in the "other place" as John calls it, people belong to each other and it doesn't matter who it is. But in the savage reservation, people are known to stay with one person [like in our society, which we consider normal]. It is pretty disturbing thinking if we lived in the new society that Huxley produces, in which, everyone belongs to one another and sleeps with whomever they want just because they could. I also find it interesting how Linda relied on soma in the new world before and is conditioned to need something like that so she starts to depend on the mescal in her new village. It seems like people in the "other world" are always depending on something [soma] or someone else [promiscuous sex] to fulfill their needs of being normal or fitting into society.

Jenn Headley

Brave New World Confusion

When I started to read Brave New World I was completely confused about several things. Aside from Farenheit 451, this book I feel is more difficult to read. I feel that Aldous Huxley writes in an indepth way, that is hard to follow from the reader's perspective. The storyline also throws me off because it is so incredibly different from our world today. Even though science already plays a big role in our society, the science that is used in the book is totally opposite from how it used today. I also do not understand why Huxley would pick the idea of conformity in such a high degree.

The part that bothers me the most about the book is how it is trying to predict how the world will be in the future, but is not even close to our society today. I could not see the storyline or any of the basic ideas in the book becoming apart of our future. I usually expect books to come together by the second chapter, but Brave New World seems like the story starts out as if the reader has read several introductory pages already.

Since the story doesn't make sense to me in the slightest bit, I can't say much more on the subject. Even if the story did make sense though, I don't like how Huxley writes in his provocative ways. I think that the story will eventually evolve, but it does start off confusing and in a slow way.

Paul Morrison

alysha scarperia

This book is beyond weird. The first thing that really weirded me out was the fact that in this book the children rewared for being sexual with each other and then when the children are not they are looked down upon. That freaks me out, and especailly since I work at the YMCA and there are some children there that do try and do things that's totally inappropriate. I sort of feel like I don't know what the world is coming to and it scares me. There are so many things that kids do now that no one would have ever done when they were that age. And there are just so many things that kids know now that I never knew when I was there age. I felt like chapter three was kind of confusing because it switched back and forth from scene to scene. Another thing that I really did not like about this chapter was how Herny was talking about Lenina. And the fact that Henry is talking to the guy about how he should just "try out" and "have" Lenina one night is absoutely DISGUTING. I HATE how boys think that they can just talk about women that way. And women aren't any better these days because they think it's cute to be known by a whole bunch of guys. I don't really have any questions about anything I read this weekend, but I just feel like this book is weird. I'm not sure if I like it but it is interesting. It makes me think and it makes me compare the way society is now to the book.

Brave New World: Is This Our Distant Future?

The brave new world could be our possible future because a the way the society is controlled can very likely happen and the way people are created can happen. People will probably be created by science and the different classes people are placed in could happen. Society today is based on survival of the fittest, the strongest and more pushing are always the leaders. The weaker ones in society just do what they are told. There may not be names for these groups of people, but that doesn't mean there soon won't be.

Fahrenheit isn't sooo bad!

Ehh not the greatest book I've ever read, but surely not one of the worst. The topic of burning books is hard enough to write about in the first place, but then comes in the idea of a crazy society as a whole as well. Through Part 1 Ray Bradbury (the author) has probably done the past job he could have done when it comes to writing on this topic. I must admit this book has alot of similarities to Brave New World including: the idea of no books allowed in society, and how the story is centered around a man's life.

Fahrenheit 451

This book is very interesting i think. The whole society seems to me that they dont like nature and animals yet there is a salamander on the firemens' sleeve, there is a robot dog called a hound, and the machine that pumped Mildred's blood was called a snake. I found that to be alittle interesting. Also, with the hound, the snake, and Mildred, Bradbury says that they are all dead but alive at the same time. He uses it alot so far in the book. I think it describes everything in society including the people because they are all technically alive, but there are so many rules and regulations that the people are dead like zombies just going throught the day. That is why they have so many suicides in one night like the snake operator said. It is a theme that I think will come up alot more in the book.

Mildred also is a very interesting character. She tries to OD on sleeping pills but denies it in the morning and almost becomes aggressive about it towards Guy. Also, she seems to be more obsessed with her work than with her own husband. It almost seems like she can't wait till he is out of the house and going to work. I wonder why she wants him out so badly. What could she be up to?

Guy Montag is a fireman, and he notices that he acted and looked exactly like the other firemen did too. But all of the sudden he is questioning his actions as a firemen and isnt participating as one in all of the "fun" things that they do. He is questioning things that someone in his position should not be. He should be doing his job and burning books like the authorities want him to. But every since he met Clarisse, she has got him thinking more and more about how the social structure is wrong and how society is drone like in following standards. I think that he will eventually stand up for change, but I am not sure how well that will work out for him.


-- RJ Murray

fahrenheit 451 Kerth

I think that the beginging of this book is very interesting. More so than i thought it would be. I like the way that it is written becuase it makes our society look so ridiculous and so far in the past. I think that this is a book that will make us think about the freedom of our society and how lucky we are to be living in a culture where books are allowed and we are able to read what we want. This seems like it will be a humbling book that will cause us to think twice about our freedoms. I hope it is more interesting than A Brave New World because that book was too bizzare for me. That type of society didn't seem possible to me but the typeof society presented in 451 seems like we are just a few steps away from it. I can't wait to see how this story unfolds.

Alysha Scarperia?!

Well, this is my frist blog and I really don't understand how to do this thing so I'm just going to write. I didn't know where to put my name so from now on I am just going to put it in the title. By the way, I'm reading "BRAVVVVVE NEW WORLD" I don't think I'm going to like this book though, I feel like it's not going to be good. Then again, I felt the same way about F451 when I first started to read it and then I ended up liking that book. There's not really much I can say so far about Brave New World because the first chapter seemed confusing and boring. All it really talked about was cloning... I guess? Does anyone else feel like they want to sing the Aladin song when the read the title of this book? Anyone... anyone? I feel like I want to shout, " A Brave New World... " and so on. But yeah, could you imagine if you got older and human beings didn't "reproduce" as they do now. I know scienctist have a lot of things they can do now with making babies, but where would the joy be in becoming a parent if you really couldn't have a baby? You just give up your eggs and sperm and then someone makes thousands of babies out it. It's weird. I wonder if the people in this book really have parents? And if people don't reproduce, what would happen if someone where to become pregnant? Or do they just not have sex? Or are they unable to become pregnant? This book is something else.. I'll just have to read more of it to really get a feel for what it's going to be about.

fahrenheit 451?

im not really sure if im doing this post right but here goes. The beginning of this book was actually very interesting -alot more interesting then i thought it was going to be, i thought it be a little boring. the beginning was a little confusing for me though, i dont know if anyone could answer this but, what exactly was this fireman, Guy Montag doing? burning books? and for what? i dont really get that. What year does this take place in because after i read where the fireman saw the girl Clarisse McClellan and began to walk with here and have a conversation with her, she mentions that firmen used to be people who put out fires not start them, and she mentioned that it was considered against the law to drive slow or to be a pedestrian. so, i was thinking that maybe this book took place in the future sometime. i dont know. Then the book really got interesting because i learned that the firman has a wife and aparently she tried to overdose on sleeping pills and i think this was maybe a suicide attempt? hopefully the book will continue to get better and better.

Brave New World Test Prep

Eh I know I'm probably the only loser coming on today, but just thought I'd ask a few questions and/or comments about Brave New World before our test tomorrow. Does anyone FULLY understand the religous conversation between John, Bernard, and Mond in Chapter 17? I understand some parts of it including: God being labeled as "old" and so he must being forgotten...but does anyone get the quotes by Cardinal Newman and what Mond believes is the way people develop a belief in God? Mond's big thing is that alot of things he doesn't want in his society aren't wanted because he's afraid that those things in the end will make the society more unstable. And a comment on Violent Passion Surrogate (VPS) seems to me to be a complete opposite to soma, it seems to give you the equivalent of fear and rage without having to go through the actual situation...why would this even be needed?

Brave New World

By the time i'm up to the general questions for BNW, some of the things asked are still confusing: I dont see how john is like a biblical character, I dont really see why Ford is such an appropriate name for their god. Also, a question such as "what is the purpose of human life" is kind of complicated to answer as well; especially since the answer for characters in BNW and somebody in our world would differ greatly. Its just that these arent exactly answers that you could go back and look up in the text and to some extent, i dont realy know what they're asking.

couple quick questions

I have a couple quick questions.

1. Is Clarrise actually dead, or is Mildred just being crazy from her pills.

2. Is the dog that Mildred hears outside of the house while Montag and her were reading books the dog from the firehouse? If so, is this dog how they find out if people have books?

Fahrenheit 451

Should Montag now feel guilty about letting the woman burn herself alive in her own hous or should he have felt guilty when he started burning people's houses and their books?

Montag should have felt guilty when he first started burning people's houses and books because it is a wrong thing to do. He is lucky his house hasn't been burned yet because of the books he has. No one wants to have their house burned to ash. Montag's guilt kicked in at the wrong time because letting a woman die is bad, but if death is the only thing that makes you feel guilty then something is seriously wrong with you and you should probably see professional help.

Fahrenheit 451

So now that we have finished with Hamlet and moved onto our new literary adventure, I want to know what everyone is thinking. Anyone who is reading Fahrenheit 451, please let me know, what are you thoughts so far as you have begun this book. How has what happened so far impacted you? What are you feelings towards Montag's relationship with his wife Mildred, along with his new found friend, Clarisse? Do you find it a little odd that Montag has been spending time with someone that is significantly older than he? Just give me a little bit of feedback on what you think about the book so far.

Act 4 scene 5

First, her father slain:
Next, your son gone; and he most violent author
Of his own just remove:

could this possibly be a double meaning?
Since Claudius is looking for a way to get rid of Hamlet he says this to incorporate Hamlet's journey to England, or he could have said this to "foreshadow" a death/murder that may/will happen later.

Even though he is right in front of Gertrude he talks like Hamlet will never come home, even though he is only going to "settle things" in England. That was Claudius's reason for sending him.

This may be obvious but i want to make sure i have this right... Ophelia sings all the time because she is/has gone crazy because of her father's death... is that right? I also think that Laertes has fallin in love with Ophelia and she doesn't even realize it. Either that or she has gotten to the point where she doesn't even care about what goes on around her because of her madness.

Act 3 scene 4

so this entire scene takes place in Gertrude's room??

Not to mention that Polonius's death was not right at all.... i mean think about it, would your first reaction to a rat be stabbing it? that was uncalled for but in the mood tha hamlet is in i can see the over reaction...

What is the significance of the ghost re-appearing?
Does he only come back to say that Hamlet is wasting time?

Hamlet Act III scene 2

OK so what i got out of this was that Hamlet is just finishing telling what he wants the players to do, but in the process everyone comes back i the room. they then go to their seats and hamlet speaks to horatio. I think that Horatio doubts Hamlet's idea or knowledge of the death of his father. So, when the idea in the play is dropped about the poison in the ear, and after Cladius "needs air" Horatio says that is a co-incidence.

What I'm asking is:

Does Horatio believe Hamlet?
or,
Does he think this all is a big mis-understanding and should probably not go along with the murder?

possible thought

ok i was reading act 3 sc 1 today and it hit me... is it possible that Hamlet doesn't act crazy in front of someone and they let the word back to claudius? wouldn't that kill any hope in the success of his plan?

Kenneth Branagh's Hamlet the Worst? Agree or Disagree.

According to Mr. Lazarow, Kenneth Branagh's version of Hamlet was and still is the worst he has ever seen. He constantly rips on Branagh because his version is so bad. So Hamlet's actions may be a little excessive and his wild arm movements a little odd, but does this version really deserve the verbal bashing that it receives? Agree or disagree......

Which Actor Played The Best Hamlet? Why?

In my opinion I thought Mel Gibson was the best Hamlet out of the versions we saw in class. He spoke his lines clearly and smoothly. Gibson used the right emotions like yelling when he needed to during his lines. He walked around the set when he wanted to act like he was pondering, and was still when he was deep in thought. Gibson didn't say his lines as if he had memorized them and spoke them as if it were natural. His actions and movement around the stage went write with the lines he was speaking.

Gibson's apperance as Hamlet only reinforces the reason why I think he played the best Hamlet. His clothing looked traditional and it matched his personality. This only helped Gibson play the role of Hamlet better.

Gibson played the best Hamlet out of the six versions by speaking his lines naturally and by acting the right way. His looks helped him appear more like Hamlet and I don't think any actor came close to being a better Hamlet.

Welcome to the LazClass MHS English 4 Blog!

Welcome, Senior English scholars of MHS Class of '07. Ever since we first began using online bulletin boards as a way to converse about literature and writing (all the way back in the early '90's, and please don't feel the need to comment about how long ago that was, or how old you were then), it was always my intent to do the same in my classroom. Admittedly, it took a little longer than I thought, but here we are.

This space is essentially yours to post relevant--and presumably intelligent--comments and questions regarding our readings. At the moment, that would consist of Hamlet, with lots more to come in the near future.

Please note the following rules:

1. only those students enrolled in Laz's English IV classes (periods 5/6, 10 and 11) who selected the blog option for this quarter may post comments here. This is not a discussion board intended for the world.

2. anyone who posts must do so with their REAL first name. Any posts found to be made using names other than real (for example, posting using another student's name) will be dealt with according to school disciplinary policy.

3. all discussion will proceed in respectful, scholarly manner

4. to ensure that #3 is obeyed, I will personally monitor all discussions on this blog. It's not that I don't trust teenagers to behave in responsible ways. . .oh, wait--yes, it is. I don't.

5. Do not expect me to comment on every posting, even if a question has been directly asked of me by one of you. I am much more interested to see whether your fellow scholars are capable of suggesting viable answers and explanations. I reserve the right to comment--or post questions of my own--when and if I deem it necessary. But just because I've done that does not make you obligated to respond. . .at least, not yet.

That's all I can think of at the moment, but I also reserve the right to change/adjust/modify/ invent as we go along. Because I can, that's why.

I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

Mr. LAZ